Bass management and speaker delay devices?

[brian jacoby]

I know some of you out there are using your ICONs for surround mixing, so maybe one of you can give me a hint as to some good products. Here's the situation:

Our recently built/installed ICON facility is configured for 5.1 or 7.1 mixing (things are wired to run 7.1 by just rolling in the extra pair of speakers), but a pretty large amount of the work done in the room is still stereo. Currently we have to rewire our studio monitors to switch between discreet 5.1 monitoring through our Mackie 626 system and mixing in stereo with the sub (running the L and R channels through the sub to use the internal crossover). This also leaves us without the option of listening to surround with bass management enabled. A few manufacturers offer dedicated 5.1 bass management systems (Martinsound, Blue Sky, etc.) but I'd like to find an option that is 7.1 compatable if possible?

The second problem is a little bit bigger. We were reworking an existing control room to build the new facility, and with the way the control room and machine room doors lined up our rear speakers ended up being a touch further away from mix position than desired. The dimensions of the room unfortunately left us with little option. Essentially I need to delay the front speakers by a small amount to bring everything back in alignment, but I'm having a tough time finding a box that will achieve that without 10 million other features that I don't need. I've found options such as the Tascam unit, but they present two annoying problems: first, most are essentially a replacement for the console monitor matrix which just seems rediculus if all I need is bass management/delay compensation. I am happy with the XMon for speaker routing, volume control, etc. and would rather not add yet one more level of complexity to the system. The second problem is, if at all humanly possible, I would like to avoid yet one more stage of A/D-D/A conversion in the monitor chain. I'll deal with a digital delay line if necessary, but I can't seem to find a high quality dedicated unit that will allow me to simply feed a digital line from PT into the delay and feed an analog delayed signal into the XMon from there.

Call me picky, call me a purist. I need delay and bass management, not 10,000 bells and whistles and extra conversion steps to muck up my monitoring chain. Does anyone have some recomendations? I'm very close to just asking some tech friends to build me something.

[audiograce]

I know that the Tascam DS-M7.1 is another box in the line, but at least it's cheap, and has digital inputs, thus avoiding the need to go through another conversion stage. However, parts of it ARE redundant w/ XMON. (2 master volume knobs?!) I'm in the camp that doesn't mind staying digital all the way to the crossovers, so I'd advocate using the TASCAM box and bypassing the XMON (almost) entirely. Just my 2 bits.

[dr sound]

Brian,
Go with the BSS Omnidrive Digital EQ and Crossovers. It's what I use at my place and they work great and are digital.That way you can use the existing Xmon.
Here's a link:
http://www.bss.co.uk/includes/product_sheet_include.aspx?product_id=30

[autopilot]

TMH Corp ( http://www.TMHLABS.COM ), Tomlinson Holman's (big daddy of 5.1) Company makes a 5.1 and 10.2 version of their bass manager. With their product you could have anywhere from 5 to 10 main channels. It has user adjustable high pass filters on each of the mains and a low pass filter on the sub out. This allows you to precisely set the crossover point if lets say you had different surrounds from front loudspeakers. Very cool. Send me an email to mewsick@essentialent.net and I will put you in touch with their sales person.

I have the 5.1 version of the BM and love it (Genelec Mains and JBL LSR Sub). Worked flawlessly out of the box.

TMH also provides acoustc consulting so they can handle any of your monitoring setup questions. Plus both Tom and his partner are really nice guys.

[Mixchump]

well, after an extensive search, I ended up going with the Studio Technologies Model 65 Bass Manager (http://www.studiotechnologies.com/ProductPage-M65.htm). Several reasons.

1. Studio Technologies is the only box that has a full bypass for bass management. The LA rep at M&K suggested that I was out of line to want a full bypass for bass management. He suggested that I have my assistant unplug the XLR's and plug them into each other when I want to hear my 5 channels full range. Neither the Martinsound ManagerMax, the TMH (identical), or the M&K box offer bypass. The BlueSky system does, but it's probably not a hard bypass with relays...

2. Very nicely built. Open it up and look at the boards. Nice layouts, good opamps (Burr Brown OPA-2604's on outputs, etc). Good switches (Schadow F-series push-push switches).

3. The adjustments (resistor jumpers) for filters are internal, so you won't have idiot freelancers 'tweaking' things on you... The filter point, and the slope are adjustable (cumbersome, but you only have to do it once)

4. In order to really appreciate an SACD title, it hardly makes sense to use Linear PCM-Digital solutions in the monitor path. Go analog all the way, you won't regret it.

If you end up having to use delays in the monitor path, I guess I feel for you... In some ways, it may end up being inevitable if you go with a plasma screen (tons of latency on the display that MUST be accounted for...)

That's all I can say for now...
Cheers eh?