PT24 / NT - Any FAQs or More details on how it works and operate on NT?

[Echo studios]

Lets put it that way.
This is a BRAND NEW system and the main thing here is....its on PC!
We're used to see Digidesign products released on -and- for the MAC.
Now this is a premiere.
I think that all Session 8 PC users, like me, out there would appreciate to have a kind of general F.A.Q. on the new release of PT24 on Windows NT. How DAE will work with it. Which IRQ, port, ressources does the cards take...What IS compatible with it and what is NOT. you see?
Does the code of the software rough and stable enough?
I know its the same software, same I/O's as Macintosh, but Im sure that we HAVE to know if there is a way to communicate audio with other programs too and also, to get scoops on what you PLAN to do with PT24...software upgrades, else..
Thanks for taking this into consideration.

Dan
Echo studios

[Przemek]

YES

[Bengt Tedeborg]

Oh yes!
I am not going to trade in the superb Session 8 system without knowing exactly what I get in return.

[Digi Engineering]

I'll try to give you some additional info:
-DAE is a dll that loads when Pro Tools loads.
-DAL is our kernel driver that manages the audio cards.
-We have no hard set IRQ and support Shared IRQ's.
-PCI parity must be off for the cards to work.
-The software is in pretty good shape. Our beta sites have found it to be very stable.
-When you create a Windows only session PT records .wav files that should be comptible with any other editing apps that support .wav, including sound forge and CD-architect.
-We are working on wavedrivers so that other apps can access our hardware.
-The current plan is to keep the two platforms as much in sync as possible. We still have a few things to add to the PC version to get it in sync with the Mac. After that is done we hope to do simultaneous cross platform releases as much as possible.
Hope this helps.
-Mike Rockwell

[Echo studios]

Well...thanks for all the latest details Mike and Tom...
hmm...but from what I see here, ProTOOLS 24 on NT is not done yet...I mean there are SEVERAL things not implemented into it yet.
Like the USD thing, I didnt knew that there was NO Usd setup on PT/NT v4.2.1 (and ..i was just about to buy the USD device..think i'll think it twice!!!).
Also, the facts about the wavedriver, midi interfaces and everything else...
Would also like to know if you are actually shipping Protools V4.2.1 for NT yet?

Thanks ...but i'll still wait before upgrading :-)

Dan D.
Echo studios

[p1]

Hey guys, I gotta tell ya, you're quibbling over details. As a PT beta tester, I have a system w/ 2 DSP farms , hooked to a 3/4" video deck. PT controls the video deck, so when I cue up PT, the video follows. In the last two days, I produced 8 radio spots, 2 TV spots, sweetened a 30 minute video, and produced a demo for a surround format show at the Adler Planetarium in Chicago, all using PT. It has PLENTY of power & speed to do complex recording & editing tasks, even now, before it's officially released. I have many of the same concerns as you, but I have found that thery're all either being dealt with or I'm being concerned about things that really don't matter. For instance, 2 G partitions. Yes, it's true that w/ FAT16 that's as big as you can go..I was worried. Then I found out about the PT round robin recording allocation feature that lets you record different tracks to different drives. Sounds like just the fix!!
The point is that Digi enginners are aware of your points, and if they aren't, the beta team on this project is NOT shy about making our wishes known (as Mike Rockwell can testify).
So sit tight & get ready for a system that'll put a smile on your face every time you use it.
BTW, I am NOT a Digi employee...just a small studio owner lookin' for the best solutions...
-------------->Denny Conn

[Echo studios]

// Best solutions ....yeah this is true.

But not for everyone. :-)

We're really happy to see that you managed to produce 8 radio spots, 2 TV spots, sweetened a 30 minute video, and produced a demo for a surround format show at the Adler Planetarium in Chicago all using PT/NT.

The point is that I have somthing in my studio that wont work with it at this time and i WON'T tolerate a MAJOR downtime here.
I got a Midi/sync device, named Opcode Studi 64XTC that wont work under Windows NT.
And I dont have another 250$ to spend for a cheap MidiMan 4X4 interface.
The same thing applies to Soundforge, hey I bought for over 1000$ of plugins like TC Electronics reverbs to EQ's ...everything you could imagine...now the main question is ..hmm wll they work at this time with pro tools Pci cards ..the answer is: -NO-

Youn know i'm really gonna upgrade to ProTools 24. But my only hopes are in the hands of Digidesign and Opcode.


-Dan
Echo studios

[TechSupt]

Mike covered most of it. Just to be a bit more specific, Inter App Communication (shadow port) is not working. Sync with sequencer apps. will have to be hard wired for the time being. The MidiMan (ISA card with 4X4 octopus) is the best recommendation for a Midi interface right now. The USD is operating through the serial port on the D|24 card. There is current no USD setup app. for the NT side. I assume this is in the works. We'll have a production cable in a month or so that will allow a machine control hookup. We're supporting the Bit 3 13 slot expansion chassis. Only one D|24 card is supported on this system (32 tracks on disk. 128 virtual tracks). As many Farms as a chassis will support (up to 10 cards total including the I/O card). SCII PCI cards are OK. Only core plug-ins are available (DigiVerb included) until third party developers port over. Some will be faster than others. Two Ultra Wide drives and an Adaptec card are required for full track count and performance. FAT 16 is highly recommended. FAT 32 will not work. NTFS will work but the compatibility issues are a big hassle. There's more but, check out the compatibility doc on the Digi web site for basic platform info. For what it is right now, it rocks. I hope this is helpful

Tom S.

[Przemek]

Fat16 has only 2G partitions! And what do you mean ...NTFS will work but the compatibility issues are a big hassle...? Does it work or not? NTFS has bigger partitions! It will be real pain in the @#$ if PT24MIX will support only FAT16 - with its 64 24bit tracks... :-(
I'm waiting for PT24MIXplus/NT, but as I see it is not so fine system as I thought :-(
BTW 128 virtual tracks with d24 - this is more than Mac, isn't it?
Thanks,
Przemek.

[Drum]

Tom

In your reply yopu said "SCII PCI cards are OK" in the PT NT system. Correct me if I'm wrong but SCII on the PC is only available on ISA and not PCI.

So, I'm a tad confused. Will it be possible to use SCII on the NT platform or no?

DRUM

[Lone Studios]

Drum, go to www.adaptec.com and check out the PCI SCSI cards available there, the 2940 series of cards are very good. PCI SCSI cards have been around for a couple of years now and are much easier to install than ISA, almost like a mac.

[Drum]

Lone Studios

Thank you. I'm sure they are, however I think you missed something. I was referring to SCII as in Digidesign Samplecell2 cards. I already have 4 2940s in various systems here! Thanks anyway.

Drum

[Przemek]

The situation is strange. I see Digi as two companies - Mac and PC. On the Mac side there is software/hardware company and it not only sells you hardware but is pleased to offer software upgrades as well (Mac Quadra can run PT - imagine 48 tracks on your 486/33mHz!). There is MLCD and LOTS of plug-ins. On the PC side there is company which wants to sell you some hardware and nothing more. You have promices, yes - full-duplex driver for AMIII for instance and wave driver for PT now. AM III is not working with Cubase VST/PC and IS working with VST/Mac. PT/NT has serious shortcomings as I see, and we have promices they'll be fixed. Maybe. But problem is not how PT/NT compare to Session8, but how it compares to Mac platform NOW. Because what you see is what you get and nothing more. IBM Intellistation is more expensive than Mac G3/300 and PT/NT cannot read Session8 .ses info (who can write that if not DIGI?) so PT/NT IS NOT even an upgrade to S8. I feel strange to wait so long and have what I could have 2 years ago.
Sorry for bitter words but that's how I feel myself...
Przemek.

[Echo studios]

I agree there too.. but let me tell you that i'm really going to upgrade because i don't wanna get stuck with my old S8 and also, because the upgrade path ($$$) is okay for me. There are still one MAJOR disapointment concerning the new PT24 on NT.

1) There is no wavedriver shipping with PT24.

2) And several software features such as USD setup not implemented yet, quicktime and machine control not supported too at this time..

I mean It would have been awesome to be able to record, edit, mix, process all my music inside Pt24 and then bounce into a stereo .wav file that I would open inside Soundforge ; apply L1 mastering, and so on to CD. As a future PT24 cutomer, I hope to get support and answers WHEN I'LL NEED IT.

Thanks

- dan
Echo studios

[Przemek]

I like upgrade cost, but I wait for MIXplus. And in fact I just bought s/h S8 to be compatible with my archive, so I'm not afraid to get stuck with old hardware as you see. Lack of wavedriver is not so important for me, cause one can buy SoundBlaster Live with S/PDIF I/O for about 250$ and go on with old software. Bigger problam is problematic future support. But we HAVE to buy it now because of upgrade deadline and wait for Waves stuff to be compatible - because w/o Waves PT is useless ;-(
BTW, do you want to buy IBM or so or build your own (I will make my own)?
Przemek.

[Echo studios]

We already build our own machine to accomodate PT24/NT..
Its a:
Pentium II 333mhz LX AGPset
running Windows NT 4.0 service pack 3
128 mb SDRAM
6 gb Maxtor int hd.
Ati Xpert@work AGP 4mb
Adaptec 2940UW Controller card w/ 2 4.1gb Ultra Wide drives
and i'm keeping my old awe64 gold for the Wavedriver output...since PT24 doesnt have one yet..

more later

-dan
Echo studios

[Przemek]

What motherboard?
Thanks,
Przemek

[TechSupt]

My apologies folks. There is a correction from my previous post concerning NT compatibility. The SampleCell Windows card (I referred to it as PCI) will not work on NT (I'm still trying to pull my head out of Mac land). I can tell you that this situation is being addressed. Look for this product this coming January. Sorry it couldn't be sooner but that's all I can devulge at the moment.

That being said, it's not Digi's intention to
port Pro Tools to the NT and leave out supporting features and software found on the mac platform. PT NT *will* be truly cross functional. We have been developing the PT mac platform for almost seven years. Porting it over to NT is a considerable task when you consider the third party plug-in developers, compatibility issues, supporting software and systems, etc.etc. We're not making any
excuses. It will be done. There was considerable pressure not to release it until most if not all the developers had their plug-ins ready and all the peripheral applications and systems were ported. The fact is, what was released is solid, very workable and most of the users wanted to have it in lieu waiting. We know this is not an altogether popular decision, but it's done. The product will be developed right along side PT mac in every respect possible. I'm not a marketing guy. I think everyone here is thrilled that the project turned out as well as it did. It's a HUGE thing for a mac developer to venture whole hog into Wintel land like we did. Anyway, so far so good. there's allot of incentive to press forward with this and stay on it. Your constructive comments are always welcome.

We're working on FAT 32 and NTFS support for NT 5.X. Right now the main reason (NTFS) is not supported is because there is no disk scheduler for NTFS, only for FAT. Therefore, you will not get as good of disk performance with an NTFS drive. This and the fact the bandwidth to work out these issues and test was not available.

Hang in there folks. This is not Session 8 (not that that was bad). This is Pro Tools. Digi's flagship product. Digi is 100% behind it. Your patience is appreciated and your impatience is understandable.

Tom S.

[Echo studios]

Great...great....and great!
with this kind of reply, I'm more than happy to have ordered PT24/NT this morning from your offices!! :)

keep up the good work and support for NT!
Thanks BIG TIME.

-Dan D.
Echo studios

[Przemek]

Thank you, Tom, I like the answer. One question more - PT/Mac can read PT/Project session files. Why PT/NT cannot read Session .ses files? Do you work on it? This is not a feature in PT/Mac, so even if two platforms will be identical, I will not be satisfied ;-)
Thanks,
Przemek.

[TechSupt]

Session .ses files and PT NT session files are completely incompatible and always will be. There is no way to rectify this. They are two very different programs written in different programing languages. They're apples and oranges. The good news is the S8 audio file format (.WAV) is the same native file format as PT NT. So the only work around we can offer is to suggest you bounce any session 8 tracks you need, store them on your drive(s) and import them into a PT session.

PT Project and PT TDM (mac) are the exact same program. One features TDM technology and one doesn't. So it makes sense that you can open a TDM session into a project system. What happens is the session comes up and warns the user that certain plug-ins will not be instantiated. User says, "OK" and the session opens. What allows this to work is that it's the same program written in the same language, using the same system files and (essentially) the same hardware. I hope this information is helpful.

Tom S

[Przemek]

Thank you, Tom. But some kind of translator maybe? In the future? ;-)
OK, I can go with it (I have spare S8 ;-)
I have another question. This is the question to Digi or one of beta-testers: How windows in
PT/NT works? Is it like in Session8, where you have to click on bar to
put it in front and you can work even on partially covered window
without moving it to the top (I LOVE that feature!!!) or clicking
anywhere in window brings it to the top immediately (like in Mac and
other Windows apps)?
Thanks,
Przemek.

[TechSupt]

PT NT screen operation works similar to the mac. In order to do somthing on a particular screen, you click on it and it jumps forward.

Pro Tools will run in the background and multitask quite nicely. You can do almost any type of editing as the program plays. You can hide it off in the task bar and open another program. It will continue to play. This feature is similar to mac operation, but NT memory space is protected so it's very solid on the NT OS. If any program crashes while PT is running in the background, it tends not to disturb PT at all. This is very different on a mac in that the whole system will crash if one program crashes.

Tom S.

[Przemek]

Tom - did you know that feature I've mentioned was worth second monitor ;-)?
I used to work with maximized edit window and one track from mix window with meter in one corner - usually covering bin. Working this way I was (in fact I still am) able to edit in edit window AND meter was always visible! This is for me way of working when recording overdubs for films or language courses - and now I will have to resize windows! PITY.
Przemek.

[Digi Engineering]

Przemek,
You know that with PT you can display meter and mixing controls in the edit window right?
-MR

[Przemek]

Yes, I know. I have PT with AMII on my old Quadra. But I cannot, for example, adjust volume ;-( And when I do it, edit window now dissappears. But who cares, when one has PT|MIXplus? ;-)
Thanks MR,
Przemek.

[TechSupt]

Pizemek. In the PT edit window, if you show / display I/O view (in the display menu) you can pop up a volume fader in the track info box (left hand side of the edit screen) by clicking the mouse down on "volume". This, of course, works during playback.

Tom S.

[Przemek]

Thank you, Tom - I hope you'll manage to sell me PT|MIXplus/NT this year and I'll have opportunity to check it out ;-)