Chris T? Is the Radial JDI direct box good enough for Eleven?

[Mikey Ace]

Hey Chris T.

I got the JDI from Radial for a direct box for Electric and Bass guitar going into a Vintech x73i into a distressor el8x into a Apogee Mini Me AD into maudio 1814 going into Pro tools Mpower 7.1 into a macbook tiger.

Or should I just go from the JDI right into the Apogee Mini me AD converter and bypass the Vintech pre and Distressor?


The specs for the Radial JDI are in this link.
http://www.radialeng.com/JDImk3-eng.pdf

Would I be better off with the Radial J48 instead.
http://www.radialeng.com/di-j48-eng-sheet.htm

I read the post by Chris Townsend about how important the DI is, and I wanted to know which DI he recommends between the JDI and J48 for both Electric guitar and bass guitar, but mostly Electric guitar.

[Chris Townsend]

Hi Mikey,

The input impedance spec on the JDI is 10k ohms, which seems very low. A DI that actually presents a pickup with a 10k load at audio frequencies, will greatly attentuate the high end (it'll be like turning your guitar's tone knob down to 1 or 2). But since it's a passive design my guess is that is just a DC spec, which isn't helpful since guitar is of course an AC signal. I tired one other cheapo passive DI a while ago and it sucked out the high-end quite a bit, but I'd imagine the JDI is much better.

The J48 on the other hand, is speced at a 220k ohm input impedance and is an active design. 220k will probably give you a pretty good balance between too much or too little high end. A couple years ago I borrowed someones J48 for a little bit and it did the job.

Anyhow, if it were me I'd buy the J48 (or JDV), although the passive JDI might be totally fine. That's the best advice I can give without actually trying the JDI for myself.

[jollo]

x

[MartinEng]

what about the Waves PRS interface? Will it be fine?

http://www.thomann.de/gb/waves_prs.htm

[Chris Townsend]

what about the Waves PRS interface? Will it be fine?

http://www.thomann.de/gb/waves_prs.htm (http://www.thomann.de/gb/waves_prs.htm)


Based on the specs it should work fine.

[badboymusic]

Martin,

I use the Waves PRS interface and it works great with Eleven.

[hnbike]

Will the above mentioned DI boxes work better than going straight into the DI inputs of a FMR RNP?

[Greg M]

Fellow DUCers,

I just put together 10 short mono recordings of an '83 Gibson LP Custom using the bridge PU and a 2004 American Strat using the neck PU into several different DI's into a Digi002rack. The test has some faults (some used different A/D converters and the volumes are not all exactly the same), but there is enough there to give you an idea of what various DI's can sound like. The DI's were 1) straight into the 002 inst input, 2) using a JDI into a mic input of the 002, 3) using a Focusrite Octopre DI into the 002 via ADAT from the Octopre digital option card, 4) using a Focusrite ISA 430 Mk II DI with it's digital option card into the Digi002 via SPDIF,and 5) using a Great River MP2NV DI and the ISA 430 digital option card into the 002 via SPDIF.

Like I said, there are some shortcomings with the test but it will clearly show you that having a good DI can make a significant difference. You will clearly hear the differences even with the dreaded mp3 files.

I will try to get the files posted on the web within the hour. Wish me luck.

Hope this will help,
Greg

[MartinEng]

Martin,

I use the Waves PRS interface and it works great with Eleven.

thanks badboymusic, I'll give it a try.

[MartinEng]

Based on the specs it should work fine.

Thanks Chris!

[Greg M]

Ok, Here's the link. You can click on the files and play them or, better yet, right click and "save target as" and download them.

http://www.downriverdaddyos.com/DigiDITests.htm


Remember, I did this very quickly. For those of you interested in the Radial JDI vs. straight into the Digi002 rack, it is a straight comparison.

Greg

[joeydego]

Ok, Here's the link. You can click on the files and play them or, better yet, right click and "save target as" and download them.

http://www.downriverdaddyos.com/DigiDITests.htm


Remember, I did this very quickly. For those of you interested in the Radial JDI vs. straight into the Digi002 rack, it is a straight comparison.

Greg
Greg, the octopre seemed to have the best clarity out of them all.

[Greg M]

joeydego,

Listening to the wave files (vs. mp3) on my system with PTLE, the one with the most clarity and frequency range seemed to be the Great River MP2NV. But, the Octopre and ISA 430 Mk II were also very good. However, there was a very big improvement just putting the Radial JDI in line over plugging straight into the 002r. I'm not bashing the 002r at all. I'm guessing that there had to be some compromises made for input impedance for a common line in/instrument in. The 002r direct in/line in sounds great with a keyboard plugged in and not bad with a bass guitar. For a regular guitar though, it sounds like a blanket has been thrown over the monitors compared even to the JDI. Chris hit the nail on the head when he essentially said that getting the impedances matched properly will bring out the high end.

As a side note, I have two guitars with active pickups and they sound just fine using the 002r inst in.

I hope these files are useful as they can help explain why there seem to be varying results/opinions with Eleven. I can tell you that I have 2 of the amps that are simulated (JCM 800 and Twin Reverb) and the simulations of the mic'd amps are dead on. It's easy to forget that mic'd amps sound different than just plugging in and listening to the amp live. The other thing is that what the guitar/amp sounds like in a mix is what really counts. Rarely would I ever use the exact same setting on an amp for recording and playing live.

Again, hope this helps,
Greg

[Chris Townsend]

Hi Greg,

Thanks for posting these files. It's amazing what a difference input impedance makes. Your experience with active pickups totally makes sense, because they have their own buffer which isolates them from the effects of loading by the DI.

[Studio Dweller]

I have both the Radial JDI (passive) and the J48 (active - phantom powered). The general rule is if you have active pick-ups use a passive DI and if you have passive pick-ups use an active DI. That being said, I generally use the JDI for bass and the J48 for guitar. They're both nice boxes and built really well.

[Mikey Ace]

Ok I brought back the JDI and picked up the Radial J48.
I noticed the post above me has a J48 how do you use yours in your setup?
How do you set up the J48 into your set up?

The way I am doing it is plugging my Ibanez Rg570 Guitar into the J48 then into the Vintech X73i pre amp into the Distressor compressor into the Mini me A/d into the Fire wire 1814 into Pro tools Mpower.
I notice when I have to insert the Radial J48 into the Vintech X73i mic pre amp and activate the Phantom power but then I have to turn the Vintech X73i on the lowest gain setting, because the Radial J48 is loud.
A whole much louder than the JDI I had.

How should I set it up to for the best sound?

[Dog BBQ]

Hey Ace I was wondering if you ever tried Plugging the Guitar straight into the X73???

If so is there a reason why you didn't like it????

Have you also tried the DI right into the Apogee or straight into the apogee???

If your unhappy with your sound maybe you have too much going on you have plenty to play with Just start Messing around!!!!!

[Studio Dweller]

Ok I brought back the JDI and picked up the Radial J48.
I noticed the post above me has a J48 how do you use yours in your setup?
How do you set up the J48 into your set up?

The way I am doing it is plugging my Ibanez Rg570 Guitar into the J48 then into the Vintech X73i pre amp into the Distressor compressor into the Mini me A/d into the Fire wire 1814 into Pro tools Mpower.
I notice when I have to insert the Radial J48 into the Vintech X73i mic pre amp and activate the Phantom power but then I have to turn the Vintech X73i on the lowest gain setting, because the Radial J48 is loud.
A whole much louder than the JDI I had.

How should I set it up to for the best sound?

For sessions with the guitar player in the live room, I go guitar -> J48 -> Mic pre -> Pro Tools. Sometimes if I'm doing a guitar track in the control room, I'll just plug directly into the DI input on my Pacifica preamp.

I prefer to compress after the amp sim, but in your case make sure you're setting your initial gain setting with the Distressor bypassed. If you're still running too hot at the lowest gain on your mic pre, you might need a pad between the J48 and the Vintech since I don't think the X73i has a pad. I can't remember trying the -15 dB pad on the J48 -- I think that's intended for using the DI with line level sources, but give it a try. Does your guitar have active or passive pick ups?

[Mikey Ace]

Hey I have the Ibanez Rg570 guitar for now with v7, s1 and v8 pick ups. I believe they are all passive pick ups.
I noticed when using the J48 DI everything is very loud when I turn on the phantom power almost to the point of clipping and I have to turn down the volume or engage the pad on the J48.

When I just plug into my vintech X73i preamp or Mini Me preamp (no J48) I have to turn up the preamp to get a good level to sound like the J48 DI.

My question is what is the J48 adding besides the added gain.
When I turn up my Vintech and Mini Me I am getting the same gain volume I am getting while plugging in the J48 engaging phantom power then turning down the gain on the preamp.

So what am I gaining with the J48?
They sound the same to me when I adjust the levels.
Is there a clarity boost I am missing?
Do I really need the J48?

[Mikey Ace]

Hey all, I deciding to bring the J48 back to the store because tomorrow is the last day I can on my receipt.

I noticed that the J48 distorts alot and I have to be very careful on lowering the volume.
And when I lower the volume it sounds like the tone I would get from my normal Vintech x73i or Mini Me pre amp on a higher setting.

So I don't know what the J48 is adding, so for 200 dollars I am bringing it back.
If anyone can give me reasons to keep it, now is the time since tomorrow I am taking it back.
I am only recording a electric guitar Ibanez RG 570 with passive pickups and a Ibanez bass SRX 505 with active pick ups using Eleven Le as a plugin.

Thank you in advance.

[halovision]

Mikey and Martin,

Purchased the Radial J48 when I bought Eleven and then puchased the Waves PRS interface with GTR3. My personal preference is the PRS interface for both programs.

My $0.02 - hope the info helps. :-)

[Delta Music Belgium]

My personal preference is the PRS interface for both programs.

Same here! I even have 2 Waves PRS interfaces because I like them so much (for 2 guitarists or for guitar + bass)...

[explorationx]

I have a digi003 & I am trying to figure out if I need a DI for better tone.
Does the digi003 have 1 meg input impedance? or do I need something else?

[freeBase]

Before trying Eleven I had a pretty in depth conversation with one of the head product developer guys at Digi regarding what DI to use. Although there isn't a clear-cut solution, the Radial JDV was determined to be the best solution (in my opinion based on the info. I received). The JDV will work great for both active and passive instruments and has the "drag" control so that you can load your pickups to get a more accurate amp tone (or tweak it for more or less high end clarity).

C.

[Shan]

Hey Chris T.

I got the JDI from Radial for a direct box for Electric and Bass guitar going into a Vintech x73i into a ...

My weapon of choice for reamping and D.I. is the radial JD7 (http://www.radialeng.com/di-jd7.htm). It was up there in price, but definitely worth it.

Shane

[Clear Guy]

Chris Townsend wrote this:
"The input impedance spec on the JDI is 10k ohms, which seems very low."

Totally wrong information as so much info on this forum is just the blind leading the blind. Its all about the young in America but they really dont know Jack S***. Listen and value the older folk if ever want to get out of your own way and learn something. Do your homework and quit trying to help people if you dont know what you are talking about. Its more confusing.

The input impedance spec on the Radial JDI is 140k ohms input which is extremely high for a passive transformer based DI. These will not load up active pickups but will slightly load up passive gtr/bass pickups which will be hardly noticeable with this high of impedance. In essence this is the one DI that can do both Active + Passive.

[sunburst79]

Chris Townsend wrote this:
"The input impedance spec on the JDI is 10k ohms, which seems very low."

Totally wrong information as so much info on this forum is just the blind leading the blind. Its all about the young in America but they really dont know Jack S***. Listen and value the older folk if ever want to get out of your own way and learn something. Do your homework and quit trying to help people if you dont know what you are talking about. Its more confusing.

The input impedance spec on the Radial JDI is 140k ohms input which is extremely high for a passive transformer based DI. These will not load up active pickups but will slightly load up passive gtr/bass pickups which will be hardly noticeable with this high of impedance. In essence this is the one DI that can do both Active + Passive.

Seems like bit of a harsh and far reaching criticism of someone almost certainly went directly to the manufacturers website or a large e-tailer to get the info. So they encountered a typo. Or simply made a mistake. The worlds still turning.

Posting the correct figure would be far more useful sans your social commentary.

[Clear Guy]

Seems like bit of a harsh and far reaching criticism of someone almost certainly went directly to the manufacturers website or a large e-tailer to get the info.

Turns out that life is harsh. I own the little box and happened to know a great deal of info on this subject, simply because I put the time in. I do know the specs of all my gear. Posting bogus info is what kills these forums and really, its all over these threads. Always seem arrogant to me.

I do like the e-tailer bit. Cute!

So they encountered a typo.

10k ohms - 140k ohms = 130k ohms off base. Typo, probably not.

The worlds still turning.

Thanks for the reminder! At least for a little longer, anyway.

Posting the correct figure would be far more useful sans your social commentary.

Your probably right! No fun!

[Chris Townsend]

It looks like Radial changed the spec on the JDI. Going directly to their website they list 140k impedance, but with a quick web search I was able to find a (presumably older) JDI product sheet that lists 10k input impedance. http://www.radialeng.com/JDImk3-eng.pdf (http://www.radialeng.com/JDImk3-eng.pdf) Anyhow, it’s mostly meaningless to list the input impedance of a passive DI, because at audio frequencies transformers just “reflect” the impedance of what they are connected to.

In terms of which Radial DI is best to use for direct electric guitar, they recommend the JDV or the J48, but not the JDI.
http://www.radialeng.com/pdfs/Radial-DI-Selector-w-text.pdf (http://www.radialeng.com/pdfs/Radial-DI-Selector-w-text.pdf)

[nst7]

ExplorationX,

The 003 DI is NOT 1 megaohm. It's 300k (listed in the specs). You'll definitely do better with another DI.

I also use the Waves PRS. The nice thing is it's got a preamp in it and I go into the line in on the 003. Huge improvement.

I only do this for guitar, though. I have an active bass and the impedance thing is different so I still use the PRS, but go into the mic preamps with it for bass.