What an embarassment!

[QuikDraw]

I loaded PT FREE on a PII 400, 128Mb single ATA33 hard drive, Creative PCI 128 sound card system.

Demo session plays back fine. Recording latency for MIDI is rediculous, and choppy. CAN NOT record like this. Audio recording is worse. Absolutely unuseable!

Then I did the unthinkable. I uninstalled PTLE for my Digi 001 system, and loaded PT FREE.

This system works flawlessly with the Digi 001. With PT Free it can't access my hardware. I assume that means my SB Live!. So, it won't even work on a system that thrives on PTLE.

What a disappointment! What an embarassment. PT FREE is such a poor implementation that I would think anyone exposed to it, without seeing a real ProTools system in action would be repelled from Digidesign products for life! I have $100 toy multitrack software that is far more useful than this joke of a demo!

PT FREE would be a good idea if it worked on most systems. It should at least be able to work on a system configured properly for PTLE.

Oh well! I just wanted to test it. It failed the test! And I'm a ProTools LE fan. I love my Digi 001 system!

Mike

[MacDaddy WGAR]

Mike i think you need to calm down first.
A coworker loaded on his Dell 450 P3 and he has a few issue but it works fine. And he uses a PTIII system on a 9600 at work. Consider how many hundreds if not thousands of Windows configurations there are. It will not work magically out of the box for everyone and besides doesn't Digi state that you should have a P3 at minimum?

I'm using the free version on my Mac at home and it works fine. Plus you need to remember that Digi has only been on Windows for about 2 years. Cut them some slack and give them the details instead of slamming them.
And after all it is free and it is NOT a demo. It is a full working version. Hey you never had to make a living with the old 3.1 software crashing 5 or 6 times a day. I lived though those hell days and now run Mix24 on rock solid
G4.
And as soon as our IT department gives a blessing I want to try it on thiss nice new Dell P3 550 boxes at work.
Take a breath and try it again. If not then go pop a P3 chip in your box.

Bill

[voicepipes]

No...i think the man has a point. If Digi has been in the Windows enviornment for 2 years they should be a force to reckon with. They have the product of choice for many studio's in the Mac OS, the leap to windows is tricky but it can be done..you have to spend the money to hire competent people to deliver the product. Instead they're offering us a version that is nothing more than a beta to see what works and what doesn't. Fine..but say so. They want us to upgrade to the full versions, if this is an example, I'm out. I have a DAW system using a high end audio card and PTF won't recognize it. Every other program tried, from shareware to a $1000.00 have worked just fine. Plus we are not allowed any method to contact Digi to ask questions or obtain help. ProTools is obviously a very good program/system. Its used in too many pro applications not to be. But this PTF version falls far short of their own standards of quality.

[QuikDraw]

Okay, I should calrify my original post here. The second install I tried was on my PIII 650 machine. 256Mb, AGP graphics, dedicated audio drive, and SB Live!. It couldn't use my SB Live!, and so I couldn't even test it. I tried every trick in the book.

I've restored my original ProTools LE / Digi 001 system the way it was before the experiment, and all is well. Like nothing ever happened.

[Prodoozer]

"Demo session plays back fine. Recording latency for MIDI is rediculous, and choppy. CAN NOT record like this. Audio recording is worse. Absolutely unuseable!"

I experienced latency while recording audio too, then I muted the track I was recording to. Worked fine. I didn't have any problems with the midi.

[MacDaddy WGAR]

Mike,
I feel bad for you and others that it does not work. But like I said I lived through some hell years with 3.1 on the Mac and just give them a chance to do a maintainence release down the road. I don't see CoolEdit, SoundForge or any others giving away a free program like this. You would think though that it would work with SoundBlaster considering how popular their cards are. I'm still waiting for Creative to come out with the Mac drivers so I can get one for home. They announced that back in January!

And you have to admit that the number of PC configs are staggering compared to the Mac. And you guys have a lot more setup issues to contend with than we do.
Perhaps if someone knows of some great Windows engineers you could direct them Digi's way http://www.digidesign.com/ubb/images/icons/wink.gif

Bill

[Lorin]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif">quote:<HR>Originally posted by MacDaddy WGAR:
And you have to admit that the number of PC configs are staggering compared to the Mac. And you guys have a lot more setup issues to contend with than we do.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

With all due respect, that's irrelevant. Adobe, Adaptec, Corel, Sonic Foundry, Macromedia, IQS, Steinberg, etc. etc. etc. all seem to have managed to write software that's unaffected by the so-called "staggering" array of possible configurations. What challenges does Digi face that those companies don't?

[twas001]

I just want to tell everyone that PTF is as they say FREE! I think it's great. I have to believe that most of you have not read all of the diclaimers that Digidesign has about the use of PTF with the PTLE and Digi01. Maybe you should do that before slamming PTF. By the way I have a 600PIII with 256mb and a SBLive and it works great. I don't think it will replace my Yamaha DSP Factory with MxTrax but maybe I'll buy the Digi01 in the future

[voicepipes]

The key word that everyone seems to be mentioning is SoundBlaster. Those of us who have been using the Windows OS for a long time fully know its limitations and ability. We for the most part use high end sound cards that don NOT work with PTF.
No one disagrees that ProTools is an excellent program. Its history and useage speak for itself. But, offering a subpar demo that will work for the most part on "home recording" sound cards does nothing for the pro/semi pro user looking for a first (albeit limited) exposure to the Digi enviornment. For many of us, this does not leave a great deal of confidnece. As one person earlier responded "many other companies have been able to make programs work within windows" why is this such a troubled buggy release? Yes there are a myriad of systems its being tested on and it can't possibly work on all of them, but there are just too many people reporting problems for this to be considered a success.
Couple the problems so many people are facing and absolutely no support options offered to obtain information from Digi..well why go any further. Why spend any money to see IF it does work. Give us a demo that works and is an accurate reflection of the "Protools Quality Level" and I'm certain you'd have many of us converting. But not now, not with this.

[macb]

Since I assemble DAW PC's for a living I feel somewhat qualified to respond to this topic. I downloaded the PT Free program and installed it on a computer we use for demo'ing PC DAW software. I will admit that I work for a Steinberg Nuendo Dealer and if you wish to disqualify my opinion feel free. But the truth is that the program would not run. It crashed at startup every time. The system I was trying it on is a "professional" DAW as I said. It is a Pentium III 600E with 256MB RAM and three ATA-66 drives, running Windows 98SE. I was very dissapointed to find out that I could not try it. I have used ProTools in the past by the way and I respect the level of quality that it has. I must agree though that PT Free is an embarassment.
I just wanted to add that the system is using an RME Hammerfall 96/52 audio card.

[This message has been edited by macb (edited October 29, 2000).]

[jeffreyc]

Hi, I think we've got to be aware the Pro Tools is a professional audio product (PS. Pro Audio is NOT MIDI stuff). In my experience (I've worked in pro audio for 7 years) that means "Highly Customized". Being highly customized means the system (Hardware and software) are matched and tuned to give optimum performance not achievable by the consumer level products such as Cakewalk, etc.

With that in mind, may I remind that PTF is still a cut down Pro Audio software, and still requires certain level of customizing. The power under the bonnet is far greater than those of digital audio sequencing software (I've used DP, Cubase VST etc). Honestly, PT even in its LE version SOUNDS better.

It's an unfortunate but nevertheless true fact of Pro Audio products. So, please be patient.

[twas001]

I think the biggest problem over all is that most of the people complaining about this are people who don't know how to read (or are too lazy too). Digidesign states that they know there are some hardware configurations that just won't work with PTF and PTLE(with Digi01). I don't care if you build DAW's for a living. Maybe you don't have the right chipset, or maybe some of your peripherals are not installed properly.
The problem is most people think that it is a PTF problem, but maybe could it be Windows?
Digidesign has written software for Macs which is rock solid, and when it comes to Windows, they want to use the best chip and chipsets so they write it exclusively for them. I know PTF is not the greatest thing since sliced bread but I think you have to give Digidesign some slack here. At least for those of use who know that the computer world is not perfect and can get this PTF to work, hey, more power to us. I learned on ProTools at school and I think it great that I can still somewhat keep in touch with it without having to dish out more money. Just think, ten years ago we wouldn't even have a chance to talk about a FREE 8-track hard disk recording system. THERE WEREN'T ANY! So stop complaining and just be thankful if you get PTF to work. If not then try another manufacturer or rebuild your computer to their specs.

[QuikDraw]

That was my point when I started this topic... My system IS BUILT TO DIGIDESIGN SPECS!!!!

My system runs Pro Tools LE with Digi 001 very nicely. And I mean VERY NICELY!!

I'm not trying to bash Digidesign here. I love Pro Tools! Digi software with Digi hardware on a Digi certified computer setup is totally AWSOME!

My gripe is this:

When I bought the Digi 001 for Win98 I built my system precisely to Digi specs. I wanted to run Pro Tools on Win98, and that's what I was going to do. No matter what. I was willing to spend whatever it took to make the system work. And it was simple... Follow the Digi guidelines for system config and components, and the system works. Period.

Not the same with PT FREE. There is NOTHING OUT OF SPEC about my system.

I guess there's no free lunch.

[jdmatt]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif">quote:<HR>Originally posted by Lorin:
With all due respect, that's irrelevant. Adobe, Adaptec, Corel, Sonic Foundry, Macromedia, IQS, Steinberg, etc. etc. etc. all seem to have managed to write software that's unaffected by the so-called "staggering" array of possible configurations. What challenges does Digi face that those companies don't?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Lorin hit the nail on the head.Digi is a mac-oriented company with an obvious bias.They can't really say they support the windows platform because they don't write the
code to be independent of the hardware configuration unlike a true windows product.
Ps.to support my contention that they are a biased company...I am in the process of purchasing a PT Mix Plus system and was told
to "do myself a favor and get a mac."
Incidentally I currently have digi 1 on the system(P3..500mhz..1/2 gig ram it works fine..but I couldn't get pt free to work at all.I can open my digi sessions,and load the tracks...but I can't play them back..tells me
to increase buffer size in hardware setup..
when I do ..the system reboots and everything is lost.
When I mentioned it to tech support..for the digi 1 system...he said "that's a pc for ya!"
The real problem isn't the pc it's the poorly
written version of pro tools for the pc!!!

I did cave in to pressure on my mix plus system..got a dual G4 with 1/2 gig ram
(I hate it) but I set up an ethernet network
with my pc (a product called dave works great
for this ..I can read and write files back and forth between the two) but it allows me
to use my pc with all my cd creating gear on the ptools files that I switched over from the mac.
The only reason I was FORCED to go mac ..was and is that digi still doesn't produce the
SAME pt for the pc...no matter what they claim.

------------------

[twas001]

I just would like you people to read this. maybe I'm not getting it. This is from the PTF download link.

5. Pro Tools FREE is not intended to work with Digidesign audio hardware. Pro Tools LE & TDM software has been extensively tested with our hardware to provide the most integrated, powerful, and robust digital audio workstations ever produced. While Pro Tools FREE does support the Audiomedia III card on Windows 98/Me, we strongly recommend AMIII owners get the latest version of Pro Tools LE.

So doesn't this mean that if you already have Protools LE with the Digi01 system you don't even need PTF? Or is there that much of a difference between them? I don't understand what the confusion is.

[QuikDraw]

So, twas001, I'm only allowed one computer? I'm not allowed to experiment with new products? Just because my Digi 001 system works I should never ever try anything else? Maybe I should never have stopped using my cassette four-tracker... It worked perfectly! (actually, I haven't stopped using it, just cut back a bit!)

Other than track count limitations, and the fact that PTFree will NOT work with Digi hardware (i.e. the 001), there is not much difference between PTLE and PTFree. Mixing, editing, automation... All seem to be the same.

The confusion is, I, being a somewhat experienced PTLE user and moderately experienced computer tech, would like to offer my fellow musicians a chance to use ProTools FREE. I know my way around the program, and I'd like to know a foolproof way to set up PTFree so that my bandmates could have a great and cheap system for doing simple track limited demos.

No, there is NO BENEFIT to running PTFree if you already have PTLE. PTFree is a stripped down version. However, testing it on a system known to run a higher version of Pro Tools seems like an obvious thing to try.

I don't want my friends and associates using Cubasis, or Cakewalk Guitar Studio, or anything else that is not ProTools. I've been waiting for years for ProTools to become an affordable solution for PC recording, and it finally has (Digi 001).

I was willing and able to shell out over $2000 for a Digi compatible PC, and an additional $900 for the Digi 001. My friends are not quite as addicted to engineering as I am, and won't spend that kind of money.

All I'm looking for is a useable way to set up and run PTFree. I want to be able to tell my friends, "Get PTFree. It's the best 8 track + MIDI home recording program out there.". I want to be able to set it up and make it work. I want to know what hardware it needs in order to work. I want to play with it enough to know the best way to monitor recordings (which so far seems to REQUIRE an external mixer due to massive latency).

These are shortcomings of PTFree. I don't need to worry about these issues with my Digi001 system.

I have a back-up partition in my system that lets me restore my entire system drive in less than 20 minutes. So I rather enjoy playing with new software. If something goes wrong, I just put it back the way it was. Instantly. Okay, maybe 20 minutes is a long instant http://www.digidesign.com/ubb/images/icons/smile.gif

I will continue to try PTFree until I figure out why it doesn't work on my system. Maybe I need to pull the Digi 001 PCI card out of the slot? I already had to uninstall PTLE in order to try PTF, might as well go the next step and pull the card...

[twas001]

I'm not trying to say that one can not experiment, I'm just saying that it's a free program, and as you know not all experiments succeed the first few times around. Everyone (with the exception of a few) seems to be bashing Digidesign for even attempting to put out a free program that only works with a few systems. I do believe it would be great if I could get it to run on my laptop, but it's only an amdk62, so I haven't even tried. Yes it would be great if all of my friends could download it and use it, but maybe Digidesign will hire someone that knows more about Windows programming and rewrite the whole thing. I would love to see them release a Protools for Yamaha DSP Factory, but that would make it so people wouldn't buy their hardware. I hope you can get it to work, but if not at least you didn't dish out a bunch of money for PTF.

[eldog]

Quote from Mach...
"The system I was trying it on is a "professional" DAW as I said. It is a Pentium III 600E"

And exactly want studio use your so called "professional" DAW.

Not: Fox, Disney, Warner Bros, Todd A/O, Paramount, Record Plant, Sony, Village Recorder, Media Ventures, The Lot, Sound City, NRG, or any other facility I have ever worked at or been in.

Nothing but home/project studios.

where do YOU work anyway???

yea, I thought so...

[Rednroll]

If you really want to go that route, The "Professional" studio that I worked in Used Ams Neve Audiophile editors...I believe Disney uses those too.....or maybe even an SSL editor. So I too can say that MAC Protools systems are not a "Professional" DAW like YOU are leading us to believe. In fact let's go even further and say that the real "professional" systems are 2 Inch!!! and a computer shouldn't even be used for "professional" work. Yeah...let's talk professionalism and criticize people for trying to expand their PC systems for professional use, which they are quite capable of. I guess if you where really a pro, then you might have heard of SSL or AMS Neve. Yeah, you're the real pro here eldog. NOT!!!!!

[This message has been edited by Rednroll (edited November 02, 2000).]

[twas001]

I just want everyone here to know that I got PTF to actually work perfectly on my laptop. I wasn't sure it would work being as its and amdk62 475mhz and I know for a fact that it's not a genuine Intel chipset its a via chipset so I don't think the chipset and processors are as important as Digidesign states they are. I don't quite know why everyones still having problems with it but if I find a trick to it I'll be sure to let everyone know.

[voicepipes]

rednroll

You hit the nail on the head.

Its not about who is a "professional"

Its about the quality of the work you produce.
I work everyday in studio's as a voiceover announcer and I see EVERY system known. The true professional can make any system work and the finished product top notch...within the obvious limits. The real issue here is can those who only know the Protools system look at other system choices with an open mind?
I have a friend..a recording engineer in LA who works with the Best of the Best in music. He uses a combo of systems. He also is helping system engineers write tighter code for PC use. As an example, a program he uses allows him to mix in LA..send an edit list file via email to a producer in England...let the prodcer listen..make changes..send back the edit list file..and the work coninues! Look at the way it happens...a PC in LA recorded the material, the producer took ALL the material with him to London Eng...he then has the option on his ..granted..high end laptop..of making chnages and sending it back..all in the PC not MAC enviornment. So there is another world out there. For those of you who think that Protools is the only system...look around..others are catching up and surpassing abilities. But please untill you have fully researched and TRIED the other systems..please don;t slam. Those of us in here who are asking why PTF won't work are doing what you should do. Trying other systems. Face it, we all want our work to be the best it can be and we will try other options. It is truly unfortunate that the digidesign PTF fails to work on so many systems. A demo should have limited use, and greater latitude. The whole idea of offering the free demo is to get those of us who don't use a digidesign product to switch. But why would anyone using a PC system..and yes there are some pretty fnie high end systems out there..switch based on this demo?
If a musician/announcer/writer etc send you a demo and says there are flaws..BUT JUST WAIT TILL THE NEST ONE!!!..would you even open it?
I was extremely interested in the digidesign product..i have seen it in use thousands of times..ad this release was a major "look see" for me. But I'm not the only one reporting problems..too many people are reporting problems. Its poor code, and even worse marketing. And if you're in this biz..you live and die on the reputation of your last job..no matter who you are.
Digi is a quality company who has made a major mistake. The PTF is not a maketing success by anyones standards.

[mike connelly]

"The "Professional" studio that I worked in Used Ams Neve Audiophile editors...I believe Disney uses those too.."

I've used the AudioFile - it was pretty state of the art about 1995. Nowadays if people are still using it, it's probably because they're not done paying them off yet. ProTools has blown away the AudioFile since PT24 and PT4.3.2.

Mike

[jeffreyc]

Pro Tools not a professional system? I've heard they used PT in "Star Wars Phantom Menance" and numerous other movies and music recordings ... Oh well, maybe that's why this "Star Wars" movie was a flop ... Or was it something else?

CD Mastering? Sonic Solutions is the best (32-bit, 192kHz, multitasking ...)
Sound for Pictures? Probably the DSP Postation?
Audio Editing for Post? SADiE?
Music Production? Pro Tools rules!

There's just too many choices. All are professional systems, some are newer, some are older. All good systems. Isn't it wonderful we have so many choices?

[jdmatt]

twas001...perhaps what you don't understand is that in a windows environment,if the program follows microsoft code requirements for writing the program,,the machine configuration is irrelevant as long as windows specs are followed.

------------------

[jdmatt]

Please don't misunderstand my position..I am
not bashing digi(I had Session 8,have the digi 001,and I am waiting for my new mix plus system,I like the pro tools environment..I
simply think that digi has been unable to address their mac-bias,this coupled with the fact that they have been unsuccesful in obtaining top quality windows programmers to
properly write new source code for pt in the windows environment..Why don't the pc =biased
audio corps have trouble with the various pc
configs.

------------------

[Rednroll]

Mike and Jeff, you must have misunderstood my post. I did not say that Protools was not a professional tool, I like Protools and would like it to be a success on a PC. I was just showing an anology to "eldogs" reasoning calling other users "non professional". Others that use the Neve's and SSL's laugh at the protool users, because their systems cost $40,000 for a simple 8 track editor. I agree that Protools is better than the Neve but his argument was ignorant and insulting, to people looking for better alternatives like the PC. If you want to be locked in a closet being a die hard MAC Protools guy, then do so and shut up, but don't be surprised when the rest of the world passes you by.

[twas001]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif">quote:<HR>Originally posted by jdmatt:
twas001...perhaps what you don't understand is that in a windows environment,if the program follows microsoft code requirements for writing the program,,the machine configuration is irrelevant as long as windows specs are followed.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


If this is the case then why is everyone having problems but myself and a few others. So what are you saying? The working ones were written to windows code but then all of the others are wrong, or that none of the people know how to properly install the program because it should work on every system. I guess I really don't care anymore cause mine works and I'll probably use my Yamaha DSP and MxTrax more anyway. Yah know the card equivalent to a Yamaha O2R.

[jeffreyc]

Actually I'm not inclined towards the Mac OS. And I've been recommending PC systems for people. My *secret* wish is that Pro Tools will one day run on PC system with Linux OS, guess that'll be another few years away though ...

[jdmatt]

twas001: what I am suggesting is that at some level in the code digi may have not followed microsoft protocol...EXACTLY...THIS WOULD
DEFINITLY lead to erratic results on different pc machines..this is not my opinio,
but a quote from a senior win98 tech on a pay
for service call to microsoft.

------------------

[twas001]

jdmatt, understood. I do agree that something like that is probably the case. Not to change the subject but another thing I've noticed around here is that everyone seems to be hung up on this professional bit. My personal opinion on this subject is that unless your main income is in recording and or multimedia work you are not a professional. I am not a professional engineer. Yes I did goto school for audio engineering but my main income comes from the home theater/automation industry. Therfore I am not a professional engineer. Can I produce professional quality recordings? Yes if I want and take the time. As far as a program being professional or not, it's all in the users ability to make it work. Cakewalk can be a professional program in the right hands. (ie. John Anderson of Yes is a prime example.) Someone here said that MIDI is not Pro Audio. I beg to differ. Many professionals use MIDI on a daily basis and some professional engineer had to sample those sequences/sounds anyway. Are there some second rate software/hardware devices? Only if you make them second rate. The audio engineering field in my opinion is all about experimentation. Question. Are ADAT's professional? When they came out many engineers hated the idea of the multitrack recorder that would soon change the way music is being recorded. I've learned over the past ten years that the music industry is full of pretencious people who always think they have the right ideas and don't think that there is always a better way to do something. They just can't admit that they might(not always) be making something harder than it needs to be. I am guilty of that from time to time. I do apoligise if I've p***ed off anyone here but I just see the music industry turning like everything else in this world. Competetive! It shouldn't be that way. We should all be able to learn from one another. And by that I mean don't look down on someone if they don't have the same ideas as yourself. I believe that this might be a big learning experience for Digidesign and hopefully they can fix it otherwise there are going to be many people looking elswhere. I know I did when the Digi001 came out. That was all because of this user conference site. Hey! I went to Digidesigns website and decided against buying their product because of it. So don't think it's the end of the world if ProTools doesn't work for you. There are many other programs that'll do the job. You just might have to use the manual for a while. Good luck to everyone.

[Lorin]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif">quote:<HR>Originally posted by mike connelly:
I've used the AudioFile - it was pretty state of the art about 1995. Nowadays if people are still using it, it's probably because they're not done paying them off yet. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

...or maybe because they still do exactly what they did when they were new, which was exactly the reason the user bought them in the first place.

I still have a P200 with an ISA S/PDIF interface that I use as a glorified razorblade. It still does what it was designed to do, and just because there are now systems with more features doesn't mean that (a) I need those new features, or (b) that the usefullness of the existing system is affected in any way by the availability of newer systems.

I may decide that I want some of the capabilities a newer system may offer, but that does NOT mean the older system is no longer useful.

[MacDaddy WGAR]

VoicePipes,
You and other who keep referring to this as a demo are wrong. Demos are time limited are feature limited, There is a hell of a lot you can do with this If you can get it running on your machine. I have already produced a promo and took it to work for sweetening on my Mix system.

2nd, If you have identical PT Sessions half way across the world with identical plug in's, all you need to do is e-mail the session reel which contains all your edit and mix info and the fades folder. It has had that ability since day one.

The Big Production house here in Cleveland is running on an NT system and the engineers there are amazing. They write custom programs to do what needs to be done. Obviously I can't comment on the recent systems of the past two years. But I am aware the pc DAWs have made considerable inroads. But I laugh everytime someone in my industry of radio says CoolEdit is great. I have used that and can say it Ain't.

Hopefully Digi will get a solid version for the pc out because the Mac version of PTF has been stable for me.

Bill

[jeffreyc]

twas001, I think you've misread the message. I'm not saying that MIDI stuff is not professional, it's just not Pro Audio, with the emphasis on Audio. I use MIDI stuff myself and am a fan of Cubase VST. I love the MIDI features. But when it comes to Audio, it's just not the same.

Digi are the guys who developed the software/hardware for Audio recording from day 1, while MIDI software developers migrated from MIDI to Audio. It's sort of like MIDI features on Pro Tools is not on the par with those software such as Cubase, Logic etc.

I don't know the others, but the few MIDI software which also does Audio just do not have high sound quality like Pro Tools. I've done comparisons and Pro Tools is still better sounding.

I've worked on different devices including Sonic Solutions, SADiE, DSP, Pro Tools, Prima Music, Cubase VST, Digital Performer, O2R, Mackie analogue desk, RAMSA DA-7, SSL consoles.

I engineered album releases on an O2R (actually I've been doing it for years) with audio recorded on Digital Performer and the result is very good. But it's just never the same sort of high sound quality if I engineer on a SSL 9000G+ with Pro Tools, Apogee converters. No matter how creative or hard working I am, it's never the same high sound quality. That's why people are still buying SSL 9000, Apogee converters (or even DCS converters), etc.

But another thing is, if 95% of general public are satisfied with MP3 quality audio, why should we bother about high sound quality anyway? It seems not justified to satisfy just 5% of people...

[mike connelly]

Lorin, first off, have you ever used the AMS AudioFile?

"...or maybe because they still do exactly what they did when they were new, which was exactly the reason the user bought them in the first place."

Of course they still do what they did when they were new. But now there are tons of options that do the job *better*. I recently had a session at a facility running an AudioFile. The session took five times as long as it would have on protools. I'll never go back there again. That company doesn't HAVE to switch to protools. But if they don't, they're going to lose much of their business to competitors who do.

"I may decide that I want some of the capabilities a newer system may offer, but that does NOT mean the older system is no longer useful."

I never said the old system is no longer useful. But just because the old system is still useful, that doesn't mean that are newer systems that can give better results in less time.

Considering the cost of switching from audiofile to protools and the benefits available, any facility that wants to remain competitive would be foolish to keep using the audiofile. Of course, for someone using audio equipment as a hobbyist, competing for clients isn't such a big issue so it makes sense to just keep using what you already have.

The fact that computers are available doesn't make typewriters less useful. So if typewriters are still useful, why are 99% of businesses not using them?


Mike