Who thinks the Swing function is pathetic?

[WestPhillySoulzition]

I have been trying to get the swing function to loosen up my loops when I record with input quantization. It works quite terribly. I find myself going into slip mode and moving the drums off the grid manually. This works much better for me.
I suggest it.
makes it sound real


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Switchcraft

[Dog BBQ]

I'd like a Nice Groove Quantize with many cool grooves to choose from. The one reason I haven't let go of my Sequencer all together!

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LCSProductions@att.net
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif">quote:<HR>The Greatest Risk in Life is Doing Nothing<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

[XX]

who thinks quantazation is pathetic I do I do . Get some rhythm up in yo self/ **** Computers . w ho is the pimp the computer or you !!!!!!!

[WestPhillySoulzition]

Ahh yes I have no rhythme, the only answere is input quant, maybe one day I wont even have to make my own music, I wont have to show up for a battle, or a show, Ill just sit back and let my computer win it for me.

give it up
i was simply discussing swing function, I tried it and it sucks,
any comments was what I was looking for.

but your right,
sometmes I cant count to 4.
it gets murky at about 3 and...
I usually quantize to 1/2 notes
then i can get it

your right, your right, I m the pimp,
im the pimp, im the pimp, Im the.. aw see it gets murky at -three and- again

but really you are hurting my feelings

can you really push those little buttons on time
wow,
I think I can too
check
www.dmadu.com (http://www.dmadu.com)

click the little speaker at the bottom and tell me If I can really do it too.

watch the words you put up
but i admit you are very helpful




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Switchcraft

[IOP Drummer]

Before passing judgements on MIDI functions, please use a good peice of MIDI software, like anything other than PT. I have no doubt that in the future PT will catch up in the Sequencing dept, but for now its just not that good.

[Bob Olhsson]

In my opinion the entire premises of MIDI
"quantization," "huminazation" and "swing" are fatally flawed.

Acoustic musicians play to match the attacks of their notes. The beginning of the sound varies all over the map but then everything comes together into an ensemble sound within a remarkable timing tolerance. The "feel" is determined by the tension between different instruments and a baseline of totally relaxed dead-even time. When it's obvious to the listener where that baseline is, the music is said to swing.

This is why loops of real rhythm sections have caught on, no sequencer can ever really do this right.

[WestPhillySoulzition]

Thank you for your definition of swing
it is very useful
I will now apply that to Univerity jazz big band
the bass line mmmm
That s what I play double bass
maybe now I will swing



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Switchcraft

[Compression Records]

Bob,

what's your point in relation to this thread? Not that I don't agree with your statement, however modern music often doesn't allow the luxury nor does it have the need (sigh) for live musicians. This is why we need adequate tools. PT is not an adequate MIDI sequencing tool as of now. Ever looked at Logic? or SVP? or DP even? I'm sure you have. So, PT rules in the audio section, it has embarrassing shortcomings in the MIDI section. This is the springing point to this thread.

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Marco Marinangeli
Magelic Productions, Inc.
Compression Records
http://www.compressionrecords.com

[dcornutt]

Keeping in mind the "intangibles" of tension and release...

as close as you'll get with notating or sequencing "swing" is to break everything into 8th note triplets and use ties across them.

For instance..for a "swing" straight eight feel..use 8th triplets for each beat..and tie the first 2 eighths of each set of triplets.

For a jazz ride cymbal..use all 8th triplets and place ties across in the same manner to achieve the pattern you want.

This and some note futzing will get you close.

It's common practice..in jazz speak..to play anything written in straight eighths in this manner. There are also hords of "common" unwritten rules about when and how to play different rhythyms as far as articulation goes...such as long..short..etc.

The easiest way to handle this..is to write this in a notation package of somekind..then..export it as a midi file..and import into PTle. You can't "tie" notes in PTle..but you can quickly do it..in a notation package.

The other way..is to "play it in"..which is always best. You can record midi "live" the same way you can audio...so..if you can swing..you can record..swing..even with midi.
If you can't swing..then..the 8th triplets are a good way for you to start to learn..and to visualize it.

If you look at it..in notation..you can easily see..with the beat being divided into 3 equal parts (the eight triplet)..then..tieing the first two together..gives you the feel of an "egg" rolling down a hill. ..the longer side of the beat..sort of lopes and the shorter side..rolls over smoothly ..but quicker.

This gives the swing beat..its "loping: but driving forward feel. This is the tension and pull in good swing..its relaxed..but..always driving forward..not rushing.

This is what beggining jazz rhythym players..always struggle with..they either rush..or drag. Keeping the triplet feel in your head..can help to start to organize the concept of the whole thing..but..you would want to reach a point to where this feels "natural" to you.

dcornutt

[B3boy]

Regarding WestPhilly's question which started this thread -

...loosen up my loops when I record with input quantization...

Why not record withOUT input quantization, and then do some selective quantizing once you have the stuff recorded? That way, you may find that some of the stuff you played feels really nice "au naturel," as it were, and if there's a few measures that are really offensive, you can go in and quantize just those measures. In any case, that way you're not stuck with these artificially stiff tracks due to input quantization.

Also, I've found that doing less than 100% quantization often gives nice results. Sometimes quantizing to 70% or 80% is all you need to tighten up the timing a little, make things feel good without being stiff.

I assume you can do this in PT, I have to admit I almost never use MIDI tracks in PT - if I'm doing serious MIDI stuff it's usually in Logic.

[[Benjamin]]

well, maybe protools (5) don't totally rock when it comes to advanced midistuff. However, I. for one (it seems), appreciate the simple interface you get when you throw out the garbage (=the functions I don't use). This makes for fast-paced, creative work.

Okay, getting to the business:

Actually, the midi-palette in PT (5, haven't looked at it in 5.1 yet, but digi claims many new functions in the midi section) can be quite powerful, used right.

I'll just give an example:
The other day I quantized a bassline (16's), that I originally didn't wan't to quant. There's some stuff stickin out just slightly in it, and it has to, but it's far too subtle for any regular swing-quant. Still I realized that some notes just had to be hard on the beat. I did the job in two passes:

1) quant everything within 5% to 16's. 100% strength 0% random

2) quant everything outside 10% to 16's & 102% swing.

-I left the middle ground alone (5-10%), this was where I found those sync's & upbeats that make the groove.

- I don't usually quant this hard (when I quant) but this time the beat was uneasy and torn, so I had to.

Just an example of sucessful use of (protools midi-tools) my head. http://duc.digidesign.com/ubb/images/icons/smile.gif

what I mean is, maybe protools miditools aint that bad, maybe you make better use of them using them in a different way than you would in say, cubase.

wella, scope on



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[HYPERSONIC]