C24 Terrible Finish....Is Yours Wearing Thin?

[tomhartman]

I've had our Control 24 for less than 4 months, and this thing has to be the most poorly designed unit from a cosmetic standpoint I've seen.

Already, the area around the "SAVE" button is dingy, and when I went to clean it WITH ONLY A MOIST RAG, as instructed in the manual, more of the surface finish started smearing and coming off.

For 6000, this is unacceptable. I'm meticulous about my gear and this is rapidly starting to look like a smudgey mess...wondering if anyone else is having these problems....

Note the review in EQ mentioned that the surface mars easily....this is also true. But the wear factor on this thing is nearly zero. Be warned...Any input appreciated.

[ June 20, 2001: Message edited by: tomhartman ]

[davemc]

ditto, around the escape key is real bad on mine.
Thinking about silver texta images/icons/mad.gif

[ June 21, 2001: Message edited by: davemc ]

[LarsRec]

I'm having the same problem with the area around the save button and the talkback button. I suspect other highly used areas will suffer the same fate. I love the unit otherwise and I'm currently in discussions with the dealer about this problem.

[ashdot]

Same problem around the talkback button.
It's extremely ugly.
Our unit is only two months old!

Izhar

[tomhartman]

I'm considering wearing gloves images/icons/wink.gif

[BothMan]

Same problem here. This is gonna look really bad in another year or so. I do love the C24 regardless.

[marcelloz]

Same here, it already looks very very bad. Unbelieveable.

Marcello

[guy@rosewood]

.....same thing here. We have had ours since March and the area around the page buttons has worn completely through.

[McMasters]

I assume you are talking about the printed text on the board. Would some sort of clear coat over the text be a solution?
i.e. A light coat of nail polish or even a flat finish polyurathane?

[marcelloz]

Maybe it would work, but mine is ruined already. And it's not just the text, but the whole thing that wears off.

[ianmiller]

Hey Digi - I just bought the control 24 - and I really like it but want it to look good for years - what are you going to do about this?
Please respond to these posts,
Thanks

[masaudio]

I haven't used mine yet but I was thinking of taking the panels off and spray them with poliuretaine or something before using it , but I'm worried , DIGI youre kid's are asking for help please !!!!!! images/icons/confused.gif

[DigiCS]

Thanks for documenting these issues. We are currently investigating this problem here at HQ and at our manufacturing plant.

I'll post more info as we get it. Thanks!

DigiCS

[Vaphoron]

Wow...I'm kinda glad I haven't bought my C24 yet. I guess I will wait until all this is cleared up first before I even think about buying it.

Jason

[crow]

Hey Digi - glad you're listening. I first started to worry when my C-24 was on order and I noticed the rubbery paint on the arm rest and side panels was seriously dinged on the Pro Control display at the dealer. The C-24 has the same stuff so I'm wondering what to do to protect that. Now this finish on the control surface itself is another story. 2 sessions and the area directly beneath the talkback button is totally worn off. The only reason more areas haven't gotten worn yet is that we just set it up and are still using the mouse and keyboard for most functions while we learn the board. I'm sure you are going to repair or replace these defective early units, right? images/icons/cool.gif cool

[sidereal]

Well, I doubt they're going to "repair" the "defective units." It's not broken. This is a cosmetic issue that happens in manufacturing in an attempt to keep costs down. I'm sure they didn't anticipate it. But this is bummer news. I was going to get one too.

Digi, maybe you can try out some options and make some recommendations for keeping the surface in good shape, such as a polyurethane spray as was mentioned before.

[Digital Sound Lab]

It should'nt be our resposibility to put a clearcoat on the board. To do that right you have to take the hole damn thing apart which would probably void the warranty. Improper paint in the manufacturing stage is unacceptable and very irresponsible.

Digital Sound Lab (http://digitalsoundlab.com/) images/icons/rolleyes.gif

[[Benjamin]]

I cannot agree more, Tom. Fortunately I heard about the finish-problem just in time to put off buying C|24's until it's sorted out.

Ben

[tomhartman]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:<HR>Originally posted by :
[b]I cannot agree more, Tom. Fortunately I heard about the finish-problem just in time to put off buying C|24's until it's sorted out.

Ben<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

It's a shame for you to have to do without it over this...the unit is a lot of fun and makes mixing fun again.

But speak with your pocket book as you are doing, and perhaps someone will hear you and address this....

[[Benjamin]]

1) Why do I have to pay $10500 for a Control|24 in Sweden, when you guys can get ot for $6000?

2) If I were you guys (haven't bought my C|24 yet) I'd drop it off on warranty at your dealer, refuse to leave the store with it in other shape than mint, if they hadn't sorted it out within say 30 days I'd send a full invoice. If they'd give me another one that wore..

Ben

(Don't let them get away with it, Digi's products have grown to become severly overpriced compared to the competition, good quality is the least we can demand)

[tomhartman]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:<HR>
2) If I were you guys (haven't bought my C|24 yet) I'd drop it off on warranty at your dealer, refuse to leave the store with it in other shape than mint, if they hadn't sorted it out within say 30 days I'd send a full invoice. If they'd give me another one that wore..

[/QB]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

This is really not a good thing. It was a lot of money, and the person who decided that this was a finish that would hold up to studio use should be out selling Digi Dogs at a hot dog stand. There isn't a lot one can do, save for pulling the whole thing out of the table it's set in and tearing up your studio, dragging it to a dealer and hoping for the best, which ain't gonna happen. It's ridiculous.

This thing had to take a long time to develop, there is no excuse for them overlooking the obvious and releasing something at this price range that looks like it's 5 years old in a matter of months.

[7k]

I've had mine for less than a month and two areas are starting to fade out. I plan on taking mine back to Guitar Renter before 30 days runs out.
If i could get by with peices of tape and sharpie notes, I would. I love the unit!

[darla]

I was talking to my guy where I do business. I was really leaning toward the C24 over the Pro Control until all this surfaced. Anyway, my contact said that his phone calls to his guys (Digi?) revealed that quite a few in the first batch got thru with no finish topcoat on them...we'll see, I guess.

[tomhartman]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:<HR>Originally posted by darla:
I was talking to my guy where I do business. I was really leaning toward the C24 over the Pro Control until all this surfaced. Anyway, my contact said that his phone calls to his guys (Digi?) revealed that quite a few in the first batch got thru with no finish topcoat on them...we'll see, I guess.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


Anyway you look at it Digi should do something about it...it's WAY too much money for something that is not holding up as well as a Mackie. Hello Digi?

[ June 29, 2001: Message edited by: tomhartman ]

[sidereal]

I would like to hear from someone who's had the c|24 for two months or more, with regular use, who *has not* experienced this problem. Anyone? I'd like to know if this is occurring in every unit, or just a few.

Also, a word from Digi would be nice (or focusrite for that matter, apparently they designed it)... to know if there is going to be changes in manufacturing. It may turn out to be a serial number thing, i.e. later units have the better finish. But we need to know.

[darla]

i put in an email to Focusrite... They replied as follows:

This is really an issue that should be addressed to Digidesign - they are
responsible for the manufacture, distribution, sale and support of the
Control |24 (we just designed it!) Please contact them regarding this and
I'm sure they'll be able to reassure you: http://www.digidesign.com

Best regards,

Tom Churchill
Focusrite Audio Engineering
http://www.focusrite.com

[Jan Folkson]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:<HR>Originally posted by sidereal:
I would like to hear from someone who's had the c|24 for two months or more, with regular use, who *has not* experienced this problem. Anyone? I'd like to know if this is occurring in every unit, or just a few.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I got my C/24 in March, one of the first in NYC I believe. I't's in heavy use at a commercial facility and I haven't seen any of the finish problems that you guys are. Hopefully, I won't either!

- Jan

[darla]

i stopped in a local Mars to check one out. The finish looked ok. I actually sat there a rubbed on a section of it for a few minutes. Nothing came off. Maybe it's only a prob with the "first batch" as my buddy at another store said. I hope so because with my limited experience between it & the Pro Control, I sure liked the C24 better. It's fun to sit behind ! images/icons/grin.gif

[masaudio]

Digi?
What can I do? No way I can send this C-24 back to N.Y. By the time it get's back to Puerto Rico I will also have to pay tax ( for second time). images/icons/confused.gif

[XHipHop]

I went into a Sam Ash store in NJ and asked about the problem. He said the one in the store has seen heavy use and has had no problem. He also encouraged me to try to rub some writing off...it held up fine.

I told him people were having problems with their finish and he thought that there isn't too much of a problem to just unscrew the top panel and throw a new one on that is properly finished.

perhaps that is going to be the solution?

Bob

[tomhartman]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:<HR>Originally posted by XHipHop:
I went into a Sam Ash store in NJ and asked about the problem. He said the one in the store has seen heavy use and has had no problem. He also encouraged me to try to rub some writing off...it held up fine.

I told him people were having problems with their finish and he thought that there isn't too much of a problem to just unscrew the top panel and throw a new one on that is properly finished.

perhaps that is going to be the solution?

Bob<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


I can tell you that I saw a circle of black around the SAVE button, thought it was dirt, got a rag and dampened it, rubbed, and watched it get worse in under 2 seconds. So I don't know what to say.

It may be highly dependent on how acidic each persons skin is...I do know that regardless of this, I've had Mackies for 3 times as long that showed no wear at all.

[masaudio]

I'm on time because mine is still in the box, but I think that the front pannel can not be taken off that easy onless you also take off the faders.
Digi, please give us some HELP!!!! images/icons/frown.gif

[scenaria]

glad I found this thread....made a call today to make a purchase on the c|24. guess I'll have to buy that J9000 now! images/icons/wink.gif

[sidereal]

sure would be nice to hear from Digi....

images/icons/confused.gif

[masaudio]

Hi Digi !
What do I have to do to get help,... call Mackie, Peavey or the police? I think that Digi. is an ansering machine and not real humans that work in a real world. images/icons/mad.gif

[masaudio]

DIGI
At this point I still have my c-24 in the box to see what will be done with this situation... after it is in place and working I can not stop. PLease HELP!!!!!!!!!! images/icons/confused.gif images/icons/mad.gif images/icons/shocked.gif

[tomhartman]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:<HR>Originally posted by masaudio:
DIGI
At this point I still have my c-24 in the box to see what will be done with this situation... after it is in place and working I can not stop. PLease HELP!!!!!!!!!! images/icons/confused.gif images/icons/mad.gif images/icons/shocked.gif<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I think Digi is layng low on this because they are in a rather untenable position....what can they do? Take them back? They are basically experiences a big "oops" at the company over this and I doubt they will do anything. For 6000+, this is unfortunate, and certainly will influence anything else we buy from them that has a cosmetic surface...

[DigiCS]

Thanks for the input folks. We do read these posts and investigate issues as they arise, and we certainly do care very much about the quality of Control|24. We're sorry to hear about some of these problems! I apologize for the delay in responding to this thread, but I wanted to get as much info as I could directly from our manufacturing plant in China and from our engineering group so that we could give you accurate answers and formulate solutions before responding.

Here are answers to some of the issues that have been brought up here:

Issue 1: Paint. A small run of Control|24s left our plant with an incorrect paint formula. The paint on this limited group of units has worn quickly in high traffic areas. The factory has corrected this problem, so it should not be occurring on units outside of that specific batch.

Issue 2: Low level hum or buzz in the surround and center channel outputs of the monitor sections on Control|24. A early run of units shipped from our factory with non-optimized transformer placement. We have modified the testing process to optimize the positioning of the toroidal transformer which minimizes hum, substantially improving performance.

Unfortunately, due to the construction of Control|24, these issues are not field serviceable. We are committed to correcting these issues, and will do so as follows:

1. Make sure that your Control|24 is registered with Digidesign by mailing in the registration card or sending in a copy of your purchase receipt.

2. If your Control|24 is exhibiting one of these problems, please contact the technical support department of your local Digidesign office.
http://www.digidesign.com/aboutus/contact/

3. The Technical Support staff will verify your registration and your address, document your problem, and give you a repair timetable. A Return Authorization number will be issued to you.

4. Repairs will be managed by sending a replacement Control|24 unit to you and a call tag issued for the return of your original Control|24.

5. Upon receipt of your replacement Control|24 you will need to package up your original unit, documented with your RA number, and return it to us utilizing the call tag provided within 30 days of receipt of your replacement.

6. Digidesign will pay shipping charges in both directions.

We realize that down time is an issue for most of our customers. This is why we are offering these specific repairs as advance replacements, and are paying for shipping. This Advance Replacement project is fairly large, and will take our repair department time to prepare for it, and they will have to approach it in stages. Because of this, we expect to start fulfilling the C24 replacements in about 3 weeks and continue from there.

I will post more info on turn around times as I get it.

Thanks for your patience.

Bob Langlie
Director of Customer Service
Digidesign

[wheeler]

excellent news!!! thanks very much images/icons/smile.gif

[spookyvoodoo]

Glad to know I truly bought a "Pro Tool". Thanks Digi!

[masaudio]

As I always say....
DIGI YOU ARE THE BEST!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
But how can I know if I have this problem, I still have it in the box and don't not have my Pro Tools yet to able to hook it up to find out? Can this be verified with the serial number?
Thank you DIGI ! images/icons/wink.gif images/icons/cool.gif images/icons/tongue.gif images/icons/smile.gif images/icons/grin.gif images/icons/grin.gif

[tomhartman]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:<HR>Originally posted by DigiCS:
Thanks for the input folks. We do read these posts and investigate issues as they arise, and we certainly do care very much about the quality of Control|24. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

That'll teach me to underestimate DigiDesign.

This is a most impressive stance to take, I'm proud of the fact that the company I've used to record my music since they used 442 systems still gives a darned.

Thanks.

[davemc]

Cool now I will see if they have any in the coutry to swap over with. When I got mine there was a 3-6 week wait on new ones. That was a couple of months ago. Can I ask for the new one to have the 10db of added gain as well.

[Digital Ears]

I was in the process of ordering the C/24 until I saw this posting. I was blown away by this unit at the dealer, but this is making me think twice...thanks to all who gave the heads-up!

- BC images/icons/cool.gif

[Silver Thread]

Perhaps if these products were not made in a remote country where the labor force has been frequently subjected to human rights violations and a surely less than equitable share of the profits of these products, well then maybe these issues of "quality control" would not come about. I personally did not know that digi has it's products manufactured in China, a country that has had an exceptionally hard time gaining acceptance into the world trade scene because of the long history of repression that it's citizens have had to endure.

I for one would like to see some documentaion of the conditions that these workers have to experience in these factories that make the products that we all use every day to earn our livings. How much are the factory workers getting paid? How long do they have to work? How old are they?
What are the environmental conditions of this plant? etc..... Does anyone at Digi even know, or is it all on the word of the factory managers overseas? Given the high dollar prices on Digi gear, knowing that these are made in China where wages are among the lowest on the planet means that Digi is able to reap in more and more of the profits generated by the lower cost of assembly. I think we can safely say that this money isn't going into quality control, but damage control when the system goes foul.

I'm a realist here. I don't expect a response from Digidesign on this matter, and I'd be surprised if this post lasts very long on this forum. It's not a comfy subject like more processing power or 5.1 mixing, etc....

But it does matter. Think about it.

Brad Zeffren
Silver Thread Productions

[BothMan]

If indeed the workers in China are being exploited, Digi isn't the only ones reaping the benefits. Me and YOU! or anyone else buying the control24 is benefitting also. Would you be willing to pay another 2 grand so the workers would get paid more? Try not to point fingers and be a Hypocrite so readily.

Paul

[Silver Thread]

Paul,
Had I known where the Digi gear was made, it might have made me think twice about jumping in. As it stands, your accusation of me being a hypocrite is off the mark. I realize that living in this culture by default puts us in a position of reaping unjust rewards while others in the world toil to produce the goods that we consume. Aside from expatriating, there's not a lot I can do about that, except try to be as informed as possible when chosing where to put my dollars.

My point was that 7 grand is a lot of cash to throw down for a piece of gear that has some pretty glaring quality control issues, and knowing what the labor climate in China is, we can safely assume that the bulk of that 7 grand isn't going to the folks that build it.

Faced with the option of not buying anything ever again due to the present day realities of the global economy, or trying to make the best out of the situation while making people think about the goods they consume, I'll stay with the latter. If you think that's inconsistant with my criticism, so be it.

I think the C24 is a fine design, and Pro Tools is an exceptional platform. I don't buy for a second that they have to assemble the gear offshore in order to compete and keep prices down. Last time I looked at my reciept, down is not the word that came to mind. I would rather see lower prices due to innovative technology that is the result of natural competition.

peace,
Brad

[BothMan]

Silver Thread
I'm Sorry for my combative post (I was not having a good day).
I am satisfied with my purchase of the control24. It is a tremendous value at $7,000. so much so, that I could probably live with the worn off paint (I can't wait to get that fixed) My point was, would we have lined up to buy it, if it carried the price point it would have had, had it been manufactured in the US? I don't want to get too political, but, higher US manufacturing costs don't only come from paying the workers more. They come from other things like Workers Comp insurance and the ridiculous cost of energy.

Paul

[Silver Thread]

I too will refrain from launching into a no holds barred disection of capitalism and the failure of using economics (not a science but a flawed philosophy as far as I'm concerned) to organize human societies.
Things like wages folks can live on, protection against work related injury due to oversight, and environmental regulations which keep the price of energy from getting too cheap (conservation anyone?? ride a bike to the studio if ya can!) should all be part of the daily operations of a civil society. If the people that owned things were more in the habit of sharing the profits with the people who make those things, we'd be able to afford the rasied costs needed to pay for these civic entitlements. That includes studio owners and record labels, club owners, etc.... Our field is no exception, and in my opinion has some pretty horrendous standards as far as I'm concerned.

%15 royalties if your an established artist after the advance is recouped? What a load of crap.

I'm gonna stop now. This is supposed to be about one little product from one company made in some factory to help us make little songs that may help to keep a BILLION DOLLAR INDUSTRY able to sell excessively commercialized crap under the guise of legitimate artistic musical expression.

I'm out

[McMasters]

Looks like we got a socialist in our mists.

YOU started it. Now here I go. 1..2..3

Capitalism rules and will always rule so long as we are free to make choices.

Slave labor IS wrong. If defined as a person forced to work agaist their will.

However, cheap labor is something totally different.

In most of those third world contries, people may be working for a dollar or two a day. Even though it may seem measly to us, it is actually an increase in income to them. They can't go down the street and get a job at the local McDonalds. It just doesn't exist. They could go back to thier fields making 35 cents a day tending the rice patty, or raising animals for their pelts, or what ever they did before the factory came to town. It seems the adults and children alike, line up for the high paying american jobs.

.............Entitlements...........

You should look into getting the goverment with its ridiculous taxes and regulations off the backs of businesses and ndividuals.

I am tired of people thinking they are entitled to a job or even benifits. You are entitled to live free and pursue whatever makes you happy. So long as that does not infringe on the above stated entitlement of an individual.

It is hard enough running a business and turning a profit. Then I am told who I can hire? I am told what their minimum wage should be? I am told to act on the irs's behalf and collect taxes for them, state, federal and local. SHEESH

All of the products I buy to run my business are overpriced because the goverment is taxing everything along the way. Everything is taxed from the actual product I need, to the box it's boxed in, to the Dunlop tires on the tractor trailer which drove it to the dealer. And everything in the dealers store was taxed from the carpet on the floor to doorknobs. Which made the store more expensive to build then it needed to be. In turn they must sell more quantity or increase the markup to stay in busness.

There are not many things which are tax exempt in this contry. Yet these republican and democratic politicians keep finding new and interesting ways to redistribute the wealth and waste money. The wealth is made by people with great ideas and good work ethics. GO DIGI GO!! Now fix that Focking console.

NOT by people who think they are entitled to take some of the wealth away from a person that has truly earned it.

Sure it would be good for the employees if a company increased their wages. I personally believe profit sharing is a positive.

Money is a great motivator. And motivated people get better results.

Well anyway that's my 8 cents worth. thats my 2 cents plus $.03 federal, $.02 state, $.01 local)

By the way, in China it's still only worth 2 cents.

Sorry for any spelling or gramatical errors my Microsoft WORD is down. Do you umberstand?

[ July 25, 2001: Message edited by: McMasters ]

[masaudio]

The conversation looks interesting but this is not a social, politic or economic philosophy room . Please tell the serial number of the F*@$%^ing consoles that have problems and lets make some music.
PEACE FOR VIEQUES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
images/icons/wink.gif

[Silver Thread]

Agreed,
I did start it, and I think it's a good discussion to have, and relevant to our situation. This is not the place to finish it, though it never seems to finish now that I think about it.

McMasters, all I can say is I hope that your confidence in the system takes local economies of the world and turns them into export economies to serve the western rich (aka us) is correct, because that's the way that world seems to be going.
If it's incorrect, well.....
Long live Rome, Long live Babylon!!
See ya on the other side!

ps. Digi-Can we please have the serial numbers of the consoles that missed the mark?

pps. DEMAND PEACE IN VIEQUES NOW!!!!!!!!!

ppps. make true music ya'll

[masaudio]

Thank you Silver!
DIGI, all we need is the serial num. or numbers in order to know what action to take.
I believe that by now you already know which are the ones with problems.
And yes…all the world demands PACE FOR VIEQUES!!!!!!!
images/icons/smile.gif