Redline Reverb - Amazing at $99

[JFreak]

Originally Posted by Shan

That 2 samples in TDM is usually 0 samples in Native when it comes to many of the reverbs.

Except that you have to have a buffer, which is a heluvalot more than 2 samples. With TDM you can decide how much you want to process and that's your "buffer".

[Shan]

Originally Posted by JFreak

Except that you have to have a buffer, which is a heluvalot more than 2 samples. With TDM you can decide how much you want to process and that's your "buffer".

The H/W buffer has no relation at all to plug-in latency. It's a HardWare buffer. This value doesn't get "added to" your recorded audio coming from your hard drive and passing through the plug-in. If one wanted to track "through" a plug-in during recording, a hardware buffer of 64 or 32 has the same roundtrip latency as HD, which is a non issue on today's computers. RTAS VI's on the other hand have many issues on both HD and LE rigs. With all the great new MIDI stuff in 8, we're gonna need an RTAS overhaul so we can use it more effectively.

Shane

[JFreak]

Originally Posted by Shan

The H/W buffer has no relation at all to plug-in latency. It's a HardWare buffer. This value doesn't get "added to" your recorded audio coming from your hard drive and passing through the plug-in. If one wanted to track "through" a plug-in during recording, a hardware buffer of 64 or 32 has the same roundtrip latency as HD, which is a non issue on today's computers.

Roundtrip latency? Well, because you obviously can't calculate AD/DA roundtrip to the comparison as Native systems will have to do that also, it is whatever happens within digital domain, matters.

If you don't have plugins within HD, the processing latency is 0 samples.

Whether you have or don't have plugins within Native system, the processing latency is the HW buffer.

For a true "roundtrip" comparison you can amuse yourself by counting samples/milliseconds from the time an impulse hits a microphone, goes thru AD conversion, gets processed by TDM/RTAS reverb, goes thru DA conversion and is heard from a loudspeaker. No matter what you do, HD always wins (there is no hardware buffer present if there are no RTAS plugs instantiated). In real life this is important whenever you have recording an artist.

For offline processing, sure, use whatever you like, but IMO low latency is the most important aspect in choosing gear/software. I'm not trying to hijack this thread, just said I'm not interested in any plug that does not have a TDM version available. Sadly, I would be interested in some nice ones (PSP 42/48 delaus and EasyVerb for example) but I just want to stay TDM-only because it saves me lots of trouble in my workflow.

[macaholic]

I just downloaded the demo and was blown away... I'm definitely gonna be buying this one!!!

The EQ looks like it might be a winner too once it comes out.. THIS is why I visit the DUC every day... to discover the "little gems"!!!

[Shan]

Originally Posted by JFreak

Roundtrip latency? Well, because you obviously can't calculate AD/DA roundtrip to the comparison as Native systems will have to do that also, it is whatever happens within digital domain, matters.

You sure can.

Whether you have or don't have plugins within Native system, the processing latency is the HW buffer.

Plug-in latency has nothing to do with the Hardware buffer. The plug-in processing is done on the CPU of a native system. It doesn't go near the hardware buffer.

For a true "roundtrip" comparison you can amuse yourself by counting samples/milliseconds from the time an impulse hits a microphone, goes thru AD conversion, gets processed by TDM/RTAS reverb, goes thru DA conversion and is heard from a loudspeaker. No matter what you do, HD always wins (there is no hardware buffer present if there are no RTAS plugs instantiated). In real life this is important whenever you have recording an artist.

Recorded audio from the drive running through RTAS plugins will have a lower plug-in latency than running through TDM plug-ins. It's always been like this. In most cases you're looking at 1-5 samples which is no big deal.

Back to the Redline verb, I just noticed the demo is 60 days! A big +1 to the dev for that one!

Shane

[danander11]

Thanks for the heads-up Kenny... This is a nice one!

Peace!

[Media Man]

Originally Posted by ronwasserman

Get used to it. TDM is (IMHO) on it's way out over the next several years.

Maybe in the next several years I'll get a gazillion core Mac.

Right now, I'm rockin' a G5 dual 2.5 with HD3 and working the TDM plug-ins.

Reverbs typically take up much more CPU power than simpler plug-ins like compressors or EQs.

Mark

[JFreak]

Originally Posted by Shan

Recorded audio from the drive

That's what I'm saying. I don't have recorded audio until someone picks the mic and sings. I do my stuff LIVE and I need absolutely lowest latency I can get *and* absolutely maximum stability for the system.

Therefore no RTAS.

HW buffer = the amount of time it is allowed to process Native code; everything must happen within this time, or the playback stops to a spike. Larger the buffer, more processing can be done, but it takes more time, thus more latency.

Calculate this if you don't believe me.

Try to record something and monitor via your system having 512 hardware buffer, for example. No can do, all you hear is a delay. Set it to 256 and it's probably okay if you're not that picky. Set it to 128 and you should be fine. See the pattern? If lower HW buffer setting enables live tracking and higher does not, there's this thing called "latency" that is very dependant on the buffer setting.

And while you're testing, take a look at the CPU meter as well. With large setting the loaded CPU meter stands quite still. There are no surprises. As you move towards smaller buffer sizes, the meter begins to move more, and when you have reached the lowest bufer size it looks rather rampant. You would need at least 50% headroom to be on the safe side as you would probably not want that recording stops in the middle of a take due to CPU spike.

TDM has dedicated power. If I can instantiate plugin, then I know for sure that it will continue running as long as my session is open. Zero surprises. Zero headroom needed. If I want to, I can load 100% DSP and it's perfectly fine, because it's not general purpose processing power.

But okay, enough of it, let's end here and keep this thread for Redline Reverb from now on. My point was I'm not interested until they make a TDM version.

[scottgreiner]

Ahem... back to the reverb. Sounds nice so far - I'll buy.

[Ale]

Yes sound very well

and it is easy to tweak its sound the way you want.

Low price but high sound!


Ale